tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post1901993275950102678..comments2024-02-25T02:50:53.858-08:00Comments on HoseMaster of Wine™: A Few Minutes Decomposing with Andy RooneyRon Washam, HMWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-83692105718918287062012-02-14T14:07:05.749-08:002012-02-14T14:07:05.749-08:00Dear Andy,
I hate natural wine, and don't tell...Dear Andy,<br />I hate natural wine, and don't tell anybody--but I don't always recycle. (A mortal sin in California!) Thank you for choosing Ron as your medium; his wit kills me. Literally. I may be joining you very soon. <br />Sincerely yours, <br />AndreaAndrea Wilsonhttp://www.tgicimporters.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-49819153892286905612012-01-27T18:47:16.780-08:002012-01-27T18:47:16.780-08:00Puff Daddy,
Of course I'm wrong.
I repeat,...Puff Daddy,<br /><br />Of course I'm wrong. <br /><br />I repeat, I'm not saying blind tasting isn't the best way to taste wine, only that most of the folks who claim to taste wine blind (not you and CGCW)are being disingenuous if not outright misleading. I don't believe them. Doesn't mean I dismiss their ratings or opinions, just means I don't believe they tasted the wines blind under controlled conditions. So drop the pretense and just say you hated the wine or loved it, and you scored it lower because the winery owner writes you hate mail. Seems like way more fun, and way more human.<br /><br />And you know bloggers, including 1WineDoody and all the rest, certainly don't taste blind. But they don't claim to either. Does this dismiss their opinions. Nope, but their lack of qualifications might.<br /><br />Besides, it was that old fuck Andy Rooney's idea anyway. I'm just the channel--the Comedy Channel.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-83284333837371588852012-01-27T15:31:01.806-08:002012-01-27T15:31:01.806-08:00Thomas--
How could you be so ignorant. No, not ab...Thomas--<br /><br />How could you be so ignorant. No, not about blind tasting which you got right and Ron has wrong.<br /><br />A mamione is to breasts what head gear is to a unicorn.<br /><br />And, if there were a way to evaluate a movie without knowing the director or evaluate a restaurant without knowing where you were eating, then that technique would be the norm.Puff Daddyhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-1033875990134543602012-01-27T11:02:16.404-08:002012-01-27T11:02:16.404-08:00Ron,
Methinks me understand you now.
I disagree ...Ron,<br /><br />Methinks me understand you now.<br /><br />I disagree on one point: critics do evaluate in a void. The problem is that the void is from ear-to-ear.<br /><br />'cept PuffDaddy, of course.<br /><br />my verify word is mamione: a mammy with an Italian lineage.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-51946603566272199332012-01-27T08:30:54.829-08:002012-01-27T08:30:54.829-08:00Thomas,
Wow, comedy AND a discussion of aesthetic...Thomas,<br /><br />Wow, comedy AND a discussion of aesthetics. You don't get that on STEVE!. You just get comedic irony.<br /><br />In the fictional world you inhabit, everything you write is indisputable. (No, I'm not a Pauline Kael fan.) But in the real world of Wine Spectator and all the rest, your criteria for wine evaluation is never never never going to happen. Yet they often pretend to aspire to your goal of leaving personal prejudice behind. That's my objection to the whole thing. "Blind tasting" has always been a scam in most cases, so why not just drop the fake curtain of blind tasting and admit that scores and ratings are not administered in a void? <br /><br />It's not idealistic, to be certain. It's that dreaded "realistic." Imagine the irony of my defending reality. It's like Larry Flynt defending virginity.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-66797376577808692082012-01-27T07:35:12.408-08:002012-01-27T07:35:12.408-08:00Sam,
Who said that I use my real name? Can you pr...Sam,<br /><br />Who said that I use my real name? Can you prove it?<br /><br />Ron,<br /><br />By the nature of the activity, aesthetic criticism is a reading of the critic's reaction to the product, which is not the same thing as evaluating the product.<br /><br />You use Pauline as an example (are you a Paulette?). Her criticisms were plainly obvious: she talked about the impact a film made on her sensibilities. That may be criticism, but it is not necessarily an evaluation--and by no stretch of the imagination is it objective.<br /><br />The only reason for blind evaluation of wine is to attempt to practice objectivity. The idea is not to guess what's in the glass, but to evaluate it without prejudice. And first-person pronouns have no place in that evaluation.<br /><br />Of course, I have been accused of spouting an unrealistic view, which is precisely why I believe it is a valid view...Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-89939574579591919122012-01-26T20:41:06.493-08:002012-01-26T20:41:06.493-08:00Samantha, My Love,
Sorry, sucker. The thigh-highs...Samantha, My Love,<br /><br />Sorry, sucker. The thigh-highs are mine. Indian givers aren't welcome here either.<br /><br />I love you!Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-25165546539496120682012-01-26T20:03:49.338-08:002012-01-26T20:03:49.338-08:00Wait a stinking minute! All you have to do to be a...Wait a stinking minute! All you have to do to be allowed to post stupid stuff here is use your real name?! Washam, we need to talk....and I want my thigh-highs back!Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-48178099291409823532012-01-26T16:48:36.568-08:002012-01-26T16:48:36.568-08:00Thomas,
I completely agree with you. Yet we don&#...Thomas,<br /><br />I completely agree with you. Yet we don't hear complaints about any other aesthetic judgments being passed under conditions that aren't completely "blind." Pauline Kael certainly hated lots of directors and actors, but her fans accepted her opinions as gospel anyway. So as an ideal, sure, maybe blind tastings are the way to go. But it is so rare, and yet so often claimed. "We taste blind as often as it is feasible." That kind of malarkey. What percentage of wines judged by Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast, Parker, Tanzer, Burghound and everyone else would you guess is judged legitimately blind? 50%? Certainly not 100%. Why not just get rid of the illusion that it's the way wine is judged.<br /><br />We agree on the ideal, but not on how it is implemented, which it mostly isn't.<br /><br />And while I always say wine blogging is attention-barking, it is far more accurately a form of self-abuse. Which is why God put us here in the first place.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-60647104994999078422012-01-26T16:36:32.668-08:002012-01-26T16:36:32.668-08:00Anonymous,
If the grammar is bad, how can you res...Anonymous,<br /><br />If the grammar is bad, how can you respond to the criticism without the potential of misunderstanding it?<br /><br />Some of us treasure the art of communication over the often idiotic practice of just spouting off. I might also add that the moniker "anonymous" lends absolutely no credibility to one's spouts.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-20640268612878400442012-01-26T16:33:05.247-08:002012-01-26T16:33:05.247-08:00Ron,
To be serious, which I know is anathema on y...Ron,<br /><br />To be serious, which I know is anathema on your blog, you seem to gloss over the nature of psychology as it relates to wine--or any other--evaluation. Knowing any detail, rather large or small, is going to have a psychological impact on one's evaluation. Some of us, especially the critics, refuse to believe that, but it is as true as the fact that night follows day, unless of course you belive that day follows night.<br /><br />Anything thing that can be done to remove influence on one's decision should be done. It is the only chance at securing as much objectivity as possible in an aesthetic evaluation. <br /><br />Having said that, since aesthetic evaluation isn't of much use to anyone who does not share the evaluator's aesthetics, it renders wine criticism rather meaningless. it's like talking to yourself, which in your case--and probably mine--must be truly meaningless.<br /><br />Blind tasting to assess the wine should not be confused with tasting wine to assess one's feeling about the wine, which is what the majority of critics do. I applaud Charlie's attempt to remove bias from the process and to try to tell people more about the wine than about the wine taster.<br /><br />In short, most wine critics are engaged in a form of sensory masturbation, and we all know that masturbation pleases only one person.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-45326481204965896242012-01-26T16:11:38.960-08:002012-01-26T16:11:38.960-08:00VKoM,
Time to enforce the time-honored rule aroun...VKoM,<br /><br />Time to enforce the time-honored rule around here. No Anonymous posting on HoseMaster unless I know who you are. It's my blog and I'm growing weary of you.<br /><br />If you want to PM me, my email is available in About Me. I have done this before, you're not the first, don't flatter yourself. I am not at all worried about the criticisms, but the tone is boring and, well, no one wants you here. I'm willing to take as much crap as I dish out, but not from someone hiding behind anonymity.<br /><br />You can let me know who you are in an email, and we can go from there. Otherwise, your comments will vanish from now on.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-47495056398760851302012-01-26T15:31:18.474-08:002012-01-26T15:31:18.474-08:00Thomas,
What's wrong with preconceived notion...Thomas,<br /><br />What's wrong with preconceived notions and hints? If a reviewer has integrity and a long history with wine, why does it matter if he knows it's 2007 Harlan Estate when he tastes it? Bad example, Harlan is almost never tasted blind by a reviewer. Is that why it has such high scores? I guess you can't go to the winery blind. <br /><br />As I said in the piece, book reviewers know the writer, Wine Blog Award judges know the blogger, restaurant reviewers know the chef, why can't wine critics know what the wine is? So the owner sends you homophobic hate mail and so you pan the wine. Is that a bad thing? I think any good critic is able to make good decisions about how he rates wines, blind or not.<br /><br />Aside from that, it's impossible not to bring preconceived notions even to a blind tasting. Let's say I taste a Zin and I think it's from Lodi, even though I can't be sure, chances are I'm not going to score it that well. One can claim impartiality, but it almost never happens. Blind tastings give consumers the illusion of impartiality--and it is strictly an illusion.<br /><br />Charlie's method always determines the best wine at any tasting. The bottle that empties first. I completely agree with that.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-19623888802860719562012-01-26T14:29:10.098-08:002012-01-26T14:29:10.098-08:00Thomas,
You so know the way to my heart...Thomas,<br />You so know the way to my heart...Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-28791921431529164172012-01-26T14:21:45.976-08:002012-01-26T14:21:45.976-08:00maybe that should have been a weren't rather t...maybe that should have been a weren't rather than a wasn't, but anonymous probably abandoned the thread by now.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-19851186117632736402012-01-26T14:20:37.422-08:002012-01-26T14:20:37.422-08:00"Blind tasting is essential, I think, to lear..."Blind tasting is essential, I think, to learning about wine, but is it really essential to critiquing it?"<br /><br />If you don't want your critique to be ruined by preconceived notions or hints, the answer is YES!<br /><br />I have a feeling, however, that with that question you sounded serious but wasn't. I know that Charlie was serious about his suck the bottle dry method--I have spies.<br /><br />Sam, just for you: what the fuck?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-15082487381875022292012-01-26T12:13:52.835-08:002012-01-26T12:13:52.835-08:00Puff Daddy,
Yes, I have tasted a few times with y...Puff Daddy,<br /><br />Yes, I have tasted a few times with your distinguished panel, and it was always a very interesting night.<br /><br />But in recent years I've begun to wonder if blind tasting is really necessary. I have been trying to think of other examples of critics who review products without knowing the producers of those products as they review them. Hard to think of one. Yet with wine we somehow associate total ignorance with objectivity. Blind tasting is essential, I think, to learning about wine, but is it really essential to critiquing it?<br /><br />I'll see you at ZAP on Saturday!Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-83502849382807982862012-01-26T12:08:17.738-08:002012-01-26T12:08:17.738-08:00Just here to salute Sir Charles. Just love it when...Just here to salute Sir Charles. Just love it when you say fuck Charlie!Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-73029051804677703892012-01-26T11:41:42.295-08:002012-01-26T11:41:42.295-08:00Bill--
It makes me nauseous just reading it.
By ...Bill--<br /><br />It makes me nauseous just reading it.<br /><br />By the way, Jose, brilliant, fucking brilliant. I lose track of time when I am closing up an issue, and I have emerged this AM to find your latest. <br /><br />I hate knowing that a group of wines contain names I am supposed to like. If they are that good, they will stand out without my knowing them. <br /><br />Besides, you know because you have been to our tastings, that we rate wines by how much is left in the bottle at the end of the night. Anything down to the dregs is automatically 90 points or better. If someone picks the bottle up and sucks out the last drops, it gets 96 and up. That seems like an perfectly egalitarian system to me.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-61611014976830597102012-01-25T11:48:40.354-08:002012-01-25T11:48:40.354-08:00Ron - I have mad man love for you. Now I'll b...Ron - I have mad man love for you. Now I'll bet that makes you nauseous.Bill Smartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-74247658412105640862012-01-25T07:26:14.248-08:002012-01-25T07:26:14.248-08:00Using my name in vain--vein--vane--makes me nauseo...Using my name in vain--vein--vane--makes me nauseous--nauseated--nauseously devoted to you.<br /><br />Ron, <br /><br />Re, Rooney and writing style/voice: he wrote exactly the way he talked. <br /><br />Writing that was true to his personality, not to mention a unique voice (I would have written very unique voice, but only a weak writer with a weak mind needs the qualifier before a word that is secure in its meaning--it's very nauseating).Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-19735731056026606822012-01-24T21:48:04.748-08:002012-01-24T21:48:04.748-08:00"...anymore?" Yeah, nice. Thomas?
Corre..."...anymore?" Yeah, nice. Thomas?<br /><br />Correcting grammar is hardly skewering. <br /><br />When brilliant criticism boils down to "your jokes are trite and you have low self-esteem," it's not particularly worrisome. <br /><br />All the erudition in the world can't cover up your sad air of superiority. OOOH, I'll bet that really hurts.<br /><br />Sheesh, who invited the gasbag to the party? Ken Payton, is that you?Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-40136695299533462292012-01-24T21:41:17.613-08:002012-01-24T21:41:17.613-08:00Made my day! Sounds just like Andy, er Andrew. Cra...Made my day! Sounds just like Andy, er Andrew. Cranky old bastard, eh?<br /><br />The analogies were dead on. Good thing I wasn't drinking while reading. Would've made a mess.<br /><br />Word verif: seatinMarcia Macomberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237764449953259939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-9123847478505852552012-01-24T20:30:53.874-08:002012-01-24T20:30:53.874-08:00But what's the definition of horked?But what's the definition of horked?Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-5196586582342185722012-01-24T20:22:18.796-08:002012-01-24T20:22:18.796-08:00Samantha Baby,
Is that Kermit the Frog? I'm g...Samantha Baby,<br /><br />Is that Kermit the Frog? I'm guessing not.<br /><br />I have long wondered why blind tasting is the signature of integrity in scoring/rating wines. If you trust the reviewer and his opinions, what difference does it make if he knows what the wine is? Many of them do know much of the time but still imply that they don't. I'm not sure consumers care whether the wines are tasted blind or not.<br /><br />Thomas,<br /><br />That's a fabulous story, thanks.<br /><br />I just had a bunch of stupid opinions on my mind and decided, in some odd burst of HoseMaster logic, that Andy Rooney would be a good voice to use for them. I get a kick out of writing in another person's voice--though my impression of his style was rather lame. It's fun and makes me think about a different approach to writing satire. And there was a time in my life I was paid to write in another's comic voice, and it takes me back to that tragic era. Perhaps I wish death on all those folks as well.<br /><br />VKoM,<br /><br />When I want the Grammar Police I call Thomas. When I want to feel nauseated, I'll call you.<br /><br />And just so you know, this is from the Merriam-Webster website definition of "nauseous:"<br /><br />"Definition of NAUSEOUS<br />1: causing nausea or disgust : nauseating<br />2: affected with nausea or disgust<br />— nau·seous·ly adverb<br />— nau·seous·ness noun<br /><br />Those who insist that nauseous can properly be used only in sense 1 and that in sense 2 it is an error for nauseated are mistaken. Current evidence shows these facts: nauseous is most frequently used to mean physically affected with nausea, usually after a linking verb such as feel or become; figurative use is quite a bit less frequent. Use of nauseous in sense 1 is much more often figurative than literal, and this use appears to be losing ground to nauseating. Nauseated is used more widely than nauseous in sense 2."<br /><br />Now go away.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.com