tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post5298618993402498130..comments2024-02-25T02:50:53.858-08:00Comments on HoseMaster of Wine™: Here Come Da Wine Judge, Here Come Da Wine Judge...Ron Washam, HMWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-5313813322772680212013-07-12T15:47:13.224-07:002013-07-12T15:47:13.224-07:00Anonymous 1,
Wow, a Double Gold! Lucky for me I su...Anonymous 1,<br />Wow, a Double Gold! Lucky for me I substituted this fake post for my regular posts, which are worth a Bronze at best.<br /><br />Oh, man, can't wait to see the newest photo montage from SF. I'm sure it will be yet another triumph.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-1414177680895113192013-07-12T14:19:54.794-07:002013-07-12T14:19:54.794-07:00Ron,
Wow...I've been busy working on a photo ...Ron,<br /><br />Wow...I've been busy working on a photo 'essay' of the SF Intl judging last month and haven't had time to peruse your latest musings...<br /><br />I'm honored to be mentioned! Thanks!<br /><br />Secondly, I believe these days the term <i> fucking Merlot </i> is redundant, isn't it?<br /><br />Thirdly, I'd be willing to provide the $2.49 plus tax for someone to run to Trader Joe's and buy a bottle of Two Buck Chuck to compare to the Gold Medal bottling...<br /><br />Anyway, I'm giving a Double Gold to your column.<br /><br />ANONYMOUS IUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08584622822476730756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-71953114784784497792013-07-10T09:20:07.568-07:002013-07-10T09:20:07.568-07:00Ron:
So what?
If I proceed, the conversation wi...Ron:<br /><br />So what? <br /><br />If I proceed, the conversation will devolve--not worth that--but you of all people must know that seeking perfection is not the same thing as "only accepting" it. That was a truly cheap shot.<br /><br />Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-4706639309491894592013-07-10T07:58:18.000-07:002013-07-10T07:58:18.000-07:00Thomas,
Of course, it makes us a willing tool. But...Thomas,<br />Of course, it makes us a willing tool. But it's only wine. We're not judging cigarettes. Selling wine is what we do, in all kinds of ways, and it's all marketing, from being a sommelier to carrying a bag full of samples to writing a stupid blog. So what? Going on junkets and shilling is probably worse. But that's debatable.<br /><br />Looking for only flawless wines? Man, that must get lonely, and you must be sober a LOT. One man's flaw is another man's beauty mark. Lovely to strive for perfection, but only accepting perfection is a loser's game.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-46683735808817548272013-07-10T05:24:24.373-07:002013-07-10T05:24:24.373-07:00I understand all that stuff, Ron; been there.
But...I understand all that stuff, Ron; been there.<br /><br />But, if it's all about marketing, doesn't that make judges a willing tool?<br /><br />I also object to the notion that picking out flaws is a flaw in itself. If the idea is to reward achievement, then flaws should be penalized--like at a dog show!Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-51451231308311962352013-07-09T20:17:24.385-07:002013-07-09T20:17:24.385-07:00Thomas,
At first, of course, you're flattered ...Thomas,<br />At first, of course, you're flattered to have been asked. And then you make friends from all over the country, and beyond. Sommeliers, journalists, MW's, MS's, retailers, enology professors, and now, sadly, bloggers. Most competitions are more reunion than anything else. I take the job seriously (well, as seriously as I can), taste with as much concentration and experience as I can muster, and then laugh and have fun with the other judges. No one does it for the money; as you know, the pay is embarrassingly low. Most do it for the networking and the camaraderie and the simple joy of being around 30 or 40 other people who share a vast knowledge and love of wine. It's a Shriner's convention, only we drink even more than they do. <br /><br />And when folks like Dan Berger and Mike Dunne and Bob Foster, all longtime wine writers with the best credentials who are also really nice people, ask you to judge, I find that I can't say no. There are far more reasons to judge than there are reasons not to. Simple math.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-4539630937816961562013-07-09T19:05:24.085-07:002013-07-09T19:05:24.085-07:00Ron,
What you say in that last paragraph is so ac...Ron,<br /><br />What you say in that last paragraph is so accurate it leaves me to wonder why anyone would want to be a wine judge. Good times, good friends, and good wine certainly can be had at other venues, maybe even paid ones.<br /><br />Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-45972016534515002942013-07-09T18:27:20.987-07:002013-07-09T18:27:20.987-07:00Daniel,
There is sort of a final competition at th...Daniel,<br />There is sort of a final competition at the end of most competitions where all of the best whites (by variety) and reds (ditto) are judged by all of the judges and voted on for Sweepstakes White and Sweepstakes Red. In my experience, judges tend to vote heavily for Sauvignon Blanc and Riesling (Chardonnay almost never wins Sweepstakes any more), and for Pinot Noir, Cab Franc and Sauvignon, occasionally something more interesting, but never Merlot. That said, Sweepstakes winners are crowd pleasers, to be sure.<br /><br />Medals are for marketing departments. No sommelier will EVER buy a wine based on a Gold Medal, and only rarely will a quality wine shop. Medals are good press kit material. Wineries want them, even covet them. The vast majority of wines are not purchased by small wine shops and sommeliers, though sommeliers think they make or break wineries. They're bought at Costco and Trader Joe's and Safeway. A Gold Medal badge there, like it or not, has prestige and sells wine. 90% of the people buying them because of the Gold Medal (yes, I made up the 90% number, but it seems right) have no idea what it really means, or how it became a Gold Medal wine. If they did, would they still buy it? I suspect the answer is, Yup.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-41681223161546534302013-07-09T10:05:55.062-07:002013-07-09T10:05:55.062-07:00Hose...
a gold medal wine is like a 3 star hotel. ...Hose...<br />a gold medal wine is like a 3 star hotel. it's ok for tonight, but I hope I don't have to live there.<br /><br />after reading your description of judging at a wine 'competition' (why don't they actually have them 'compete' with a NCAA type tournament and have a final winner?), it does make me ask. "Then why do you do it?"<br /><br />I love it when winery people brag about their medals, scores etc. I always tell consumers to keep it in perspective. It might have 95 points, double gold, critics choice, etc., but what if you don't like a high-octaine/deeply extracted/bracingly acidic minerally/terrior heavy/delicate nuanced/tannic and earthy whatever it is? It's like music. sometimes you want Mozart, sometimes you want They Might Be Giants. such a fine line...<br /><br />cheers<br />DanielDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947624477553194151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-888742451553966712013-07-09T09:06:18.653-07:002013-07-09T09:06:18.653-07:00Andy,
Thanks. As you know, some competitions won&#...Andy,<br />Thanks. As you know, some competitions won't invite any winemakers to judge. The days can get long with some. Though many are very generous with medals and very easy to judge with--usually those who have been winemakers for a long time.<br /><br />Maybe we'll be on a panel together one day. That would be very interesting. Of course, I make everyone sign a non-disclosure agreement. Which is sort of like a screwtop, I think.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-53048233603857986772013-07-09T08:43:00.685-07:002013-07-09T08:43:00.685-07:00Ron, as always, you nailed it. I enjoy wine compet...Ron, as always, you nailed it. I enjoy wine competitions, and I think many superb wines get proper exposure as a result.<br /><br />Perhaps the most frustrating time I had was several years ago at a Southern California competition during which I was on a panel with three winemakers. I don't recall that we gave much higher than a bronze medal that day. Of course, the category was "Central Coast Merlot," so I might have been optimistic that we'd find something better.Andy Perduehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479537349026293591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-38003986579134912602013-07-09T08:15:26.323-07:002013-07-09T08:15:26.323-07:00Marcia Love,
Oh, that HoseMaster guy is off somewh...Marcia Love,<br />Oh, that HoseMaster guy is off somewhere with Lo Hai Qu. He'll be back later in the week, just as annoying and probably infected.<br /><br />I think that all the attention being paid to wine competitions ignores the fact that their value is generally exaggerated. As is my opinion's.<br /><br />My Gorgeous Samantha,<br />That woman collecting boxes was obviously a volunteer at the competition. Judges do not ever get to take home open bottles, or unopened bottles. So she had no say in awarding medals.<br /><br />One of the weird things about judging is the esteem you are held in by the nice folks who volunteer to help at the competition. It's almost embarrassing. They do amazing and tireless work, and everyone involved with those judgings owes them enormous respect and gratitude. And they could also tell you stories about butthole judges who make their lives miserable. <br /><br />I love you so.<br /><br />John,<br />You're welcome. I've also got nothing funny or wise to say, but that never stops me.<br /><br />Thomas,<br />Yeah, but they would have been New York wines, so be careful what you wish for.<br /><br />Eric,<br />I judged at three competitions in six weeks. I judged with a vast array of knowledgeable folks, from wine writers to sommeliers to winemakers. And, though I've done this for years, I continue to learn at each event. It's enhanced my appreciation of wine, not spoiled it. It's made me realize my very real limitations, and also helped me appreciate even more how miraculous a great bottle of wine is. <br /><br />Are the results more or less accurate than wine reviewers and numbers? Doesn't matter. If you're a consumer, pick your poison. Wine is about pleasure. Ratings and medals and numbers reduce wine ultimately, rob it of pleasure. As guidelines, they all have strengths and weaknesses. But they all force us to bring expectations to a bottle of wine that will often blind us to the real joy of drinking that wine--the joy of drinking it with a loved one or the joy of a memory it evokes. <br /><br />So when I read some dimwit "exposing" wine competitions, it just makes me laugh. His big news? We're human and we all think we're right. <br /><br />Friday it is! It will be nice to finally meet you, Eric. Looking forward to it. I'll bring the Bronze Medal wines.<br />Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-61561667146337188682013-07-09T07:41:32.152-07:002013-07-09T07:41:32.152-07:00Wow Hose, well done. Well done.
Favorite line, &q...Wow Hose, well done. Well done.<br /><br />Favorite line, "-though the vast majority of wine blogs are not written, they're hurled)"<br /><br />Having recently judged at the LA competition, you describe my experience to a tee (though, fortunately, we had no a-holes at my panel). We did have two winemakers who consistently pointed out the many faults (57 wines in category "oaked chard, under $15, gag me). <br /><br />At first I thought two winemakers on a panel might prove to be a mistake, but now I realize how much I learned from listening to Brian Maloney the winemaker at DeLoach Vineyards and Mitch Cosentino of Cosentino Winery. Like Gabriel mentioned in the comments, I can't happily and obliviously chug some of the stuff I was before, but I have a better appreciation for the good ones when I find them.<br /><br />For me personally, it's about getting out and meeting folks in the industry. I'm grateful for the opportunity to judge (and welcome requests, especially the expenses paid kind). Many fellow judges, I've had correspondence with for years, but never meet as I sit here on my ass year after year running my site. <br /><br />Speaking of which, we are on for lunch Friday next week. I very much look forward to meeting you in person to congratulate you for your poodle awards. Bring the trophy, or whatever, eh? Lunch is on me. Or maybe Michael Hientz. He may have something planned. Will email.<br /><br />EVOEric V. Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10421713709476706024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-54206002320461868992013-07-09T06:11:41.117-07:002013-07-09T06:11:41.117-07:00Until a few years ago, every year for many years I...Until a few years ago, every year for many years I judged at the NY State Fair. <br /><br />We were always unpaid, but before the fair people changed their policy, we at least reimbursed for miles driven (about 200 round trip for me) two nights in a hotel, a lunch, and a dinner.<br /><br />The part that made me crazy was that the dinner did not include wine. <br /><br />For some reason, I was the only one who found that odd.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-2962437435118345512013-07-08T22:11:36.762-07:002013-07-08T22:11:36.762-07:00I've got nothing funny or wise to say, but I w...I've got nothing funny or wise to say, but I wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts on judging. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00033572431928998581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-34220960038161407592013-07-08T20:57:50.301-07:002013-07-08T20:57:50.301-07:00Paul G,
My dear man, I have so few gifts I am glad...Paul G,<br />My dear man, I have so few gifts I am glad to share with you the one I do have, swear words! Go forth and spread that fine word sir. <br /><br />Ron My Love,<br />Well I've never gotten a Brazilian either, although come to think of it I might just prefer having my pubes ripped out. If I were on a panel with the likes of you or Gerald then hell yes, just for that reason alone it would be worth it but just last week I had a woman working the Long Beach Grand Cru judging come in and ask for some extra boxes, I tried to give her the lay down flat case boxes she stopped me and said, "Oh no, this is for the leftovers, they will be open bottles and this competition is going to keep me in wine for months!"...I shit you not. Not sure I want that person giving any kind of medals or picking wines for me. Ick. You are in a whole other class babe and the events you do have to be a good time, otherwise why would you do them but so many of those people, ugh. Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-91783206849054206592013-07-08T20:52:55.836-07:002013-07-08T20:52:55.836-07:00I'm late. I know. Where did you put the Hosema...I'm late. I know. Where did you put the Hosemaster?<br /><br />No, seriously I loved this post, Ron. It may be a departure from the norm, but it was an oh-so-worthy read (especially when we all get new vocabulary like "douchenozzle" to play with now).<br /><br />I was listening to some Sonoma visitors Saturday in Vine Alley commenting on all the gold medals touted at one tasting room's sign. "Gold medal for what? Gold Medal from Ace Hardware for 'best wine to have with a wrench'?" - or something to that effect. They weren't being sarcastic but merely felt it was overplayed and generally meaningless unless you actual taste it for yourself.<br /><br />Somehow I think your version of wine competitions would end up a lot more like "Night Court." Loved that show. Give it a gold medal. :-PMarcia Macomberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237764449953259939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-38516057505197004982013-07-08T18:21:49.475-07:002013-07-08T18:21:49.475-07:00My Gorgeous Samantha,
Well, it's like anything...My Gorgeous Samantha,<br />Well, it's like anything else, easy to be critical when you've never done it. And, for all you know, you might be on a panel that agrees with you. Those people do exist. At most competitions you have a mix of damned accomplished tasters and damned idiots. But isn't that a reflection of the public in general?<br /><br />Of course, no one goes into your shop and asks for a Gold Medal wine. They don't ask for a wine that got 96 in Wine and Spirits either. They ask You. And that's really smart. Part of my point. Gold Medals are for wineries to trumpet on their websites, in their tasting rooms, at public tastings... If someone assigns it value, they take that risk. Just as by accepting your recommendations they are taking a risk. Just under different circumstances. <br /><br />Up here, after every Sonoma Harvest Fair judging, Ben Pearson loads his store with the Double Gold and Gold Medal wines. He sells an enormous volume of wine. Folks then get to think, wow, wine judges are smart, or they think, wow, what a bunch of douchenozzles. Either way, it's a discussion of wine, and that's all anyone ever wants.<br /><br />As for Parker, distance yourself all you want. It's the only region where I like his taste, but primarily for the regular wines, not the high octane stuff that gets the big numbers. I wouldn't expect you to like those wines any more than you can expect me to like Pinot Noir Rose.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-91214073669614711712013-07-08T18:20:07.314-07:002013-07-08T18:20:07.314-07:00Oh, man, this is gonna take awhile...
Steve Lay,
...Oh, man, this is gonna take awhile...<br /><br />Steve Lay,<br />Nothing to be ticked off about. My general point is that every sort of wine rating system, every sort of evaluation, is flawed. Wine is a social event, for the most part, and therefore we seek the company of humans when we want advice or approval. Parker or Heimoff, State Fair or Riverside International. We get bad advice from friends and family in real life, we get a lot the same in our wine life. It's how we learn.<br /><br />Hoke,<br />Thank you. It's a subject that pops up all the time on wine blogs. I've done satires about wine judges, but this time I just wanted to write about it from my own perspective. Glad you liked it.<br /><br />Paul,<br />Ah, yes, wine competitions are For Profit. So, not like Wine Enthusiast...<br /><br />I would agree that many, if not most, are, in fact, pathetic. The pathetic ones I do once, and then not again. The ones where I continue to be a judge, I participate for the simple reason that I enjoy them, and I learn a lot from judging. I've learned an enormous amount about my own strengths and weaknesses judging wines, things I couldn't have learned as a sommelier. And it's also great networking, and I've met lots of great folks at wine competitions. <br /><br />And, actually, I've been at many competitions where they were NOT worried about how many medals were awarded, though, to your point, those are the exceptions and not the rule. But, with experienced wine judges, we listen to those instructions and then ignore them.<br /><br />As for 150+ wines in a day--yup, too many. But I can tell you that I certainly don't put the funky ones in my mouth, and that's probably 15% of them. Still too many, but many competitions have cut way back on those numbers, for which judges are very grateful. And how many wines did Parker used to taste in a day? How many did Alder Yarrow taste at ZAP every year and rate? And wine competitions are useless? My bigger point is to take all wine reviews with a gigantic grain of salt.<br /><br />I tell people to think of a Gold Medal as an 89 point wine. This is total gibberish. Gold and 89 are utterly subjective, and it's a completely false analogy. But there you have it. (And that's not how I evaluate the wines at a judging, that's just a remark meant to stimulate their sense of being critical of all sorts of ratings.)<br /><br />Marlene Darling,<br />Oh, been there, done that. I had the same thing happen to me with tequila, but not at a competition.<br /><br />Bob, Bob, Bob,<br />This ain't stinkin' Wikipedia. If you want to contribute your thoughts and opinions, do so. We've had this discussion. You're becoming the boor at my dinner party. No more links. I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.<br /><br />Gabe,<br />Oh, the wine competition stories I could tell! Perhaps one day...<br /><br />As for winemakers and wine tastings, I get it. You certainly do NOT want to watch TV sitcoms with me. I just get angry.<br /><br />Thomas,<br />All these criticisms are slam dunks, inarguable and accurate. And yet, an awful lot of them apply to most wine reviews and critiques. Points, medals, badges, scales of all sorts. Wine bests us at every turn.<br /><br />Dean,<br />It's none of those. It's just my usual crapola.<br /><br />Leo,<br />Thank you.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-55192820023287168302013-07-08T17:29:10.000-07:002013-07-08T17:29:10.000-07:00"I've never been a judge at a wine compet..."I've never been a judge at a wine competition. I just know myself too well and I doubt I would be able to hide my, 'Um, are you aware you are a total self congratulatory douchenozzle?' and 'You want to give this gold? You're fucking stoned' face. I know my short comings...or it has to do with my missing Funk."<br /><br />Sam - you have just added an immensely valuable word – douchenozzle – to my Funky Wagger! Thank you so much!!!PaulGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409346656762573929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-67160412374338104712013-07-08T16:23:27.940-07:002013-07-08T16:23:27.940-07:00Ron My Love,
Well I had both my Funk and Wagnall r...Ron My Love,<br />Well I had both my Funk and Wagnall removed after a childhood roller skating accident, but I see you had yours removed from this post as well so I guess that can't be the reason I've never been a judge at a wine competition. Or I've said no the couple of times I was asked to do one. I just know myself too well and I doubt I would be able to hide my, "Um, are you aware you are a total self congratulatory douchenozzle?" and "You want to give this gold? You're fucking stoned" face. I know my short comings...or it has to do with my missing Funk. Plus I've always sort of thought of "Gold" sort of like "Medium", not good, not bad, just meh. That's what I would tell my customers anyway, if one of them, in 17 years, had ever asked about a wine that got a gold or silver medal, not one ever has.<br /><br /> I do thank you for including me and my little store in this fine list Love. Immensely flattering and pink-cheek inducing....even though I have to take a strong step away in praising Parker in the Rhone. Nothing like standing in a cellar in Chateauneuf-du-Pape with some farmer/winemaker beaming in your face, your palate on FIRE as he tells you, "This should get a good score, it is 16%!" blech. Thankfully however, things are swinging back as his, and his old publication have less and less influence in the marketplace, and in the vineyards. <br /><br />Thanks again for the kind words My Love. There are very few things I like more than turning you on....to wine that is. xoxoxoxox Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-80952573820351539892013-07-08T16:06:02.172-07:002013-07-08T16:06:02.172-07:00Thanks for your excellent article, a solid piece o...Thanks for your excellent article, a solid piece of advice to wine 'evaluators'. Last paragraph is of the essence : the wine point of view.LeoFerrandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01252029922865499638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-76819363582669969242013-07-08T14:43:45.721-07:002013-07-08T14:43:45.721-07:00or is it sardonic? ironic? or is it sardonic? ironic? Dean Tudorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027150351344396656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-63282039134911356572013-07-08T14:42:32.651-07:002013-07-08T14:42:32.651-07:00Ron, loved your satire...wait...not satire...that ...Ron, loved your satire...wait...not satire...that other word...sarcasm...yes, loved your sarcasm...More please...(that's not true is it???)Dean Tudorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027150351344396656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-63309421424949479202013-07-08T13:48:42.324-07:002013-07-08T13:48:42.324-07:00What Paul G. said.
What Paul G. said. <br /><br /><br />Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.com