tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post5788184322045413382..comments2024-03-22T00:35:12.415-07:00Comments on HoseMaster of Wine™: The Corkage Policy at Restaurant GougéRon Washam, HMWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-69951525071398740582017-03-15T23:00:15.670-07:002017-03-15T23:00:15.670-07:00In my in-box was this offer from WineAccess:
Head...In my in-box was this offer from WineAccess:<br /><br />Headline:<br /><br />“The Only Pinot Grigio You’ll Find on the Wine List at Thomas Keller’s Per Se”<br /><br />2015 Tiefenbrunner Pinot Grigio Vigneti delle Dolomiti IGT @ $16<br /><br />And the sales pitch:<br /><br />“Last year, WineAccess members snatched up 200 cases of the 2014 Tiefenbrunner in just under 48 hours. Then we offered the 2015 vintage and again, our 200-case allocation sold out in a matter of hours. A thank you to those 79 buyers who took the time to rate it an outstanding 4.09 out of 5 stars. For those who missed out, as long as you made a reservation well in advance at Per Se, the 2015 Tiefenbrunner is still on the wine list for $65 … or today on WineAccess you get another shot at just $16/bottle. Only 100 cases are up for grabs — you make the call.”<br /><br />Back of the envelope math: Per Se pricing is four times retail.<br /><br />Quoting this Wine Enthusiast magazine article:<br /><br />“Industry-wide markups average two and a half to three times wholesale cost . . . A bottle priced at $10 wholesale might sell for $15 retail, but $25 to $30 in a restaurant.”<br /><br />Link: http://www.winemag.com/2010/05/07/the-lowdown-on-restaurant-markups/Bob Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02089688073031173053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-36783591104480150662017-03-15T05:08:33.160-07:002017-03-15T05:08:33.160-07:00In 1996, five of us dined at La Tante Claire. The...In 1996, five of us dined at La Tante Claire. The meal got off to a bad start.....<br /><br />I had enquired when booking if I could possibly bring some wines from my cellar, and was told yes, at £15 per bottle corkage. (I had said that I was embarrassed to ask and that I expected the answer "no", but "yes" it was.) However, when the sommelier offered us the wine list and I told him that I'd brought my own wines by prior arrangement, his jaw dropped. Now I know what it's like to be in a Bateman cartoon. He returned much much later, and explained that the lady who'd said yes was new, that she shouldn't have said it, that they didn't normally do it, but that they would accommodate me on this occasion.<br /><br />Strange.....when I rang, she had had to enquire of someone else the price, so was that other person also new, and from where did they get the price? I shall remain mystified.<br /><br />The food was excellent. But that incident made it a less than pleasant occasion. Since that, I've never eaten at any of Pierre Koffmann's restaurants. And I never will.<br /><br />Why on earth didn't they just say "no when I asked? And when I said that, I'd expected them to say "no". Why did they quote a price?<br /><br />I should mention that I wouldn’t <i>for one moment</i> have dreamed of asking Tante Claire about bringing wine, except that at the time I was working near John Burton-Race’s L’Ortolan and had lunched there about a dozen times, and they’d mentioned to me that they were open to BYOB. So when I was planning to lunch at L’Ortolan with some colleagues, I asked about BYOB, Madame Burton-Race said ok and quoted a corkage charge. And I’d availed myself of that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06814254911867284253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-28217003037942867622017-03-14T08:16:34.331-07:002017-03-14T08:16:34.331-07:00Ron,
Rest assure I'm always here, I keep wait...Ron,<br /><br />Rest assure I'm always here, I keep waiting for you to make fun of people who insist on Sabering Bubbly bottles, so festive... reminds me of the gathering during my circumcision at 8 days old... Let's take something beautiful and hack at it. Plus, where else am I going to get the REAL alternative news about the industry?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11455153198456969077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-72144618521063984692017-03-14T00:13:17.805-07:002017-03-14T00:13:17.805-07:00@Ron
No, only for those that drink. I suspect it&...@Ron<br /><br />No, only for those that drink. I suspect it's the whole "we're providing and cleaning a glass for you". It's not as if they have a very extensive wine/beer list or what not anyway, they definitely aren't making most of their money from alcohol for sure. Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09911398647505242281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-16019331117326009472017-03-14T00:09:55.376-07:002017-03-14T00:09:55.376-07:00Restaurants can do whatever they want with their c...Restaurants can do whatever they want with their corkage fees and their wine lists for that matter. It is my option to do whatever I want including giving them the finger as I drive past if I think they are being greedy. <br /><br />I do wonder, however, how restaurants that sell $25 bottles of wine no one has ever heard of on their list for $90 (thus making tops about $70) justify charging corkage twice that amount.<br /><br />And that is before I even comment on wine lists so arcane that they exist only to impress other sommeliers.<br /><br />And, now this. I have just returned from a holiday down under during which I ate at one of Sydney's finest. A great meal ruined by the fact that even the Aussies had very little knowledge of the unheard of French and Spanish wines that dominated the wine list at the expense of carefully chosen wines from their own country. <br /><br />There are wine snobs everywhere.Charlie Olkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513782687786106137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-27607518310094988492017-03-13T23:00:22.018-07:002017-03-13T23:00:22.018-07:00"Go ahead, write a scathing review about us o..."Go ahead, write a scathing review about us on Yelp. OOOH, we’re shaking. Yelp is just pinheads talking to other pinheads, a carnival sideshow of sadly deformed humans making a public spectacle of themselves. We’re Restaurant Gougé, we’re review proof now."<br /><br />Just not restaurant critic review proof.<br /><br />"At Thomas Keller’s Per Se, Slips and Stumbles"<br /><br />Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/dining/pete-wells-per-se-review.html?_r=0<br /><br />(As reviewer Pete Wells observed in a profile of him in "The New Yorker" [September 12, 2016]:<br /><br />"The danger is getting friendly with people [e.g., restaurateurs] you should feel free to . . . savage, when you have to.")Bob Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099196210297757292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-85332487685255553242017-03-13T21:11:34.835-07:002017-03-13T21:11:34.835-07:00I think you could have redrafted this sentence . ....I think you could have redrafted this sentence . . .<br /><br />"When you are widely acknowledged as one of the great dining establishments in the world, you simply cannot serve pedestrian wines"<br /><br />to:<br /><br />"When you are widely acknowledged as one of the great dining establishments in the world, you simply cannot serve wine to pedestrians"<br /><br />. . . and it would be equally valid, as "we" don't deign to take walk-in customers.<br /><br />Reservations only -- made months in advance when we open up our telephone line for 10 minutes each morning.Bob Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099196210297757292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-2495507929046105962017-03-13T17:12:45.565-07:002017-03-13T17:12:45.565-07:00Dearest Judi,
No, you didn't make me feel smal...Dearest Judi,<br />No, you didn't make me feel small. I'm not that sensitive. I think that's apparent. I'm actually glad you showed up as a common tater. Please come back often. And I love the Patsy photo! AbFab is one of my favorite sitcoms, and I'm picky. So I admire your taste. <br /><br />Aaron,<br />$2 per person is an interesting corkage fee. Even if they don't drink? Man, what a strange biz. Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-50290903542747822962017-03-13T15:53:56.781-07:002017-03-13T15:53:56.781-07:00@ReportMonkey
That's a really interesting idea...@ReportMonkey<br />That's a really interesting idea. Hm...<br /><br />Heh, yea, I don't frequent (or ever go) to places that are that insane about prices or corkage. I think the priciest I saw was something like $40-50 at a very nice place. But well over $100? That's insane.<br /><br />Most places I've been it's $20-30 or so, which is decent. More or less 2 glasses of the house wine that seems to work out to. Then again, a tiny little Italian place (not fancy, just good old Italian) has a $2 per person. Not per bottle, per person. Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09911398647505242281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-32121670624663701722017-03-13T11:53:47.007-07:002017-03-13T11:53:47.007-07:00Oh dear, hope twas not I to make you feel small. I...Oh dear, hope twas not I to make you feel small. I agree with you and I got that it was French Laundry. Hard not to! Hype costs $$$$ and some people don't care. Chacun à son goût.Judi Lainghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06563037845897059317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-15465814939300414782017-03-13T11:35:36.902-07:002017-03-13T11:35:36.902-07:00Judi,
I retired about ten years ago, from a restau...Judi,<br />I retired about ten years ago, from a restaurant in Los Angeles. I know how it works. I may not have liked people who brought their own bottles, but I found that few people really abused the privilege. Once in a while, but for the most part people brought great wines, and, in some ways, it was flattering they came to my place to enjoy them.<br /><br />That said, it was a big restaurant. We had lots of tables. A small place cannot afford to have tables filled with wines brought from home. There are many scenarios where tasting fees are warranted, and many when they are not. I wrote the piece as a blast at places like French Laundry, places with insultingly high corkage fees. That's done simply as a dare, and a fuck you. I don't like that much. Don't allow outside bottles, that's fine with me, but also don't have insultingly exorbitant corkage fees. I don't need a restaurant to make me feel small. I have readers for that.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-40914183844939480292017-03-13T11:23:15.384-07:002017-03-13T11:23:15.384-07:00Thank you for the update. I'm sure every possi...Thank you for the update. I'm sure every possible argument has been stated :) May I ask when was the last year you worked the floor? A lot may have changed depending on how long ago...just wondering...<br /><br />Here in California an "On-Sale General for Bona Fide Public Eating Place" liquor license allows a customer to bring in wine, spirits and beer if, of course, the restaurant allows it.<br />Judi Lainghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06563037845897059317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-11386708312234306402017-03-13T11:18:19.708-07:002017-03-13T11:18:19.708-07:00I dine only at soigné places where they pronounce ...I dine only at soigné places where they pronounce it kôrˈkäZH.obillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13076379893172366792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-31108447506002127252017-03-13T10:59:49.969-07:002017-03-13T10:59:49.969-07:00Oded,
Of course, for wine in a box, there's a ...Oded,<br />Of course, for wine in a box, there's a baggage fee. Good to see you here again, my friend! Been too long.<br /><br />Neal,<br />But can you sneeze and pee at the same time? (Thank you, My Gorgeous Samantha)<br /><br />Tom and Cris and Judi,<br />These were the sorts of debates prevalent on wine blogs back when I wrote this piece. The same points are made over and over, Tom's and Judi's. I worked the floor for 19 years, and my policy changed by situation. Most corkage fees are flexible. In 19 years, I charged corkage fewer than 20 times. But restaurants have every right to insist on corkage fees, as you have every right to not patronize them because of it.<br /><br />Many states don't allow you to bring your own bottle to a restaurant. That pretty much ends this entire debate.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-19161992748622661702017-03-13T10:48:52.012-07:002017-03-13T10:48:52.012-07:00"Screwage Fee". That was worth the enti..."Screwage Fee". That was worth the entire column! Usually my attempt at a joke or an insult is limited to short quips like that which don't take a lot of intellect to remember with my limited mind. So much to remember....so little to remember it with. Brilliant- Thank You!Jet Fuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04646983421601626081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-18562398688012159182017-03-13T10:31:13.582-07:002017-03-13T10:31:13.582-07:00Pardon me, but you wouldn't bring a steak to a...Pardon me, but you wouldn't bring a steak to a restaurant and have them cook it for you because you bought the same steak for less. Or would you? You go to a restaurant for service, atmosphere and, obviously, the food. There are thousands of bottles of wine...why would you pick the same one that's on the menu to save a few bucks? Whining about bringing your own bottle of wine, the same one that's on the wine list, is pure brattiness. Judi Lainghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06563037845897059317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-17785199099912371522017-03-13T10:07:04.803-07:002017-03-13T10:07:04.803-07:00Keep preaching the Truth, Tom.
There are so many...Keep preaching the Truth, Tom. <br /><br />There are so many fun, false assumptions and excuses for corkage fees. My favorite that I've heard numerous times is that bringing in your own bottle means a lost wine sale for the restaurant. When was the last time you looked around a restaurant and saw a purchased bottle on every single table? I've never seen that either. Cris Whetstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580386535702366380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-57016928871866119602017-03-13T09:39:47.983-07:002017-03-13T09:39:47.983-07:00Finally someone making fun of corkage fees! I also...Finally someone making fun of corkage fees! I also agree with Oded regarding "screwage fees". I’m sure this will raise the hackles of a few, and maybe more. But this has always been one of my pet peeves when it comes to being financially taken for a ride by a restaurant. Many feel that there is some cardinal rule when it comes to bringing a wine you enjoy to a restaurant that provides that option, and in-turn charges you for that opportunity. I’ve express these same peeves many times in many places on the internet and during some of my wine education classes. The corkage charge is profit, nothing more and nothing less, and a good one at that. The glasses are washed with everybody's dirty dishes , so that’s not a good reason for extremely high corkage fees. Additionally, half the time the server, usually Ashlee, Ashley or Ashligh, knows less about the wine she's straining to yank the cork from than I do. So that's no educational reason. When some people see a stratospheric priced bottle of wine, and they pass because of the price, that's lost profit to the restaurant. If the same person came back in with his own bottle and paid the corkage, or purchased a reasonably priced bottle, that’s pure profit. I'm not worried about a restaurant "trying" to fleece me or anybody else, as some of them are accomplishing that quite well when it comes to corkage and wine mark-ups. If a restaurant doesn't want my business, or doesn't want me to enjoy my favorite wine with my meal, that’s fine. If not, maybe a new rule of NO outside wine should be in order. Then I wouldn't give them my business anyway. Many restaurants may have a decent wine list, that's true. But, if that decent wine list has indecent prices, it's the consumers place to make the decision to buy off the list or BYOB and pay the restaurants own established corkage charge. But it is NOT the consumers fault for that policy or pricing, and it's NOT the consumer’s obligation to assure the restaurants profitability. If an individual wants to bring a bottle of Two Buck Chuck, and pay a $20 corkage, that’s their decision to make, however foolish it may sound. But don’t blame the consumer for abiding by the restaurants own policy, or breaking some unwritten “cardinal rule” by not bringing in some $200 bottle of wine, or a bottle that’s on their wine list. Why would anyone want to pay $115 for a bottle of, lets say Silver Oak, off the wine list, when they can bring in the same $60 bottle, pay the $20 corkage and save a few bucks, $35 to be exact! If a restaurant feels that I'm breaking some "cardinal rule" or something by bringing in MY selected wine, then the restaurant needs to change THEIR wine service policy. They need to state their policy...no outside wine, no wines that are on their wine list or no corkage and such. First, there's the restaurant owner’s right to establish their own wine service policy. Second, there's the right of the consumer to visit that restaurant while abiding by the established policy without feeling like a slug for bringing in a wine that's on the wine list. If I pay the corkage for my own bottle of wine that’s on the wine list for twice the price, or more, then so be it. If there's some unwritten "cardinal rule" that a restaurant owner thinks is being broken, put it in writing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15305471702850033579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-65132003421877892002017-03-13T09:08:45.303-07:002017-03-13T09:08:45.303-07:00Ron, I didn’t know such things (corkage) and fine ...Ron, I didn’t know such things (corkage) and fine establishments (Restaurant Gougé) were on the wine radar. Then again I am of the South American “el cheapo plonko” style with the greaser burger amongst the company of those who pick their nose, scratch their balls and fart – a few of’em can do that simultaneously. I never could, hence why I have not risen up the ranks.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10870306929532142309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-64080007331069942872017-03-13T09:02:26.096-07:002017-03-13T09:02:26.096-07:00Ron, I keep bringing Screw-Cap bottles of wine to ...Ron, I keep bringing Screw-Cap bottles of wine to restaurants, hoping to one day hold a receipt with a line-item that says "Screwage Fee".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11455153198456969077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-73590639148045355582017-03-13T08:38:17.571-07:002017-03-13T08:38:17.571-07:00RMonkey,
I've never heard of that kind of cork...RMonkey,<br />I've never heard of that kind of corkage policy, but I like it! That's very innovative and cool, and a win for everyone. If you don't want to share, don't bring in a bottle. And then you make the other table share the exorbitant corkage fee, too!<br /><br /> Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.com