tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post7405027912092735622..comments2024-03-22T00:35:12.415-07:00Comments on HoseMaster of Wine™: Judgment at GeyservilleRon Washam, HMWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-69290706720270251792014-03-30T14:25:08.477-07:002014-03-30T14:25:08.477-07:00I think he means Diego Garcia.
He either wants y...I think he means Diego Garcia. <br /><br />He either wants you to go there, or he means some failed left-handed pitcher who can neither throw strikes nor make jokes.<br /><br />Man, anybody can be a tater here, no matter how common.Charlie Olkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513782687786106137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-14361174031575469882014-03-28T13:13:05.634-07:002014-03-28T13:13:05.634-07:00I'd reply, but I haven't the foggiest what...I'd reply, but I haven't the foggiest what you mean, Redmond Barry. Do you mean CV to Diageo? Or 105 to San Diego? Those make about as much sense. <br /><br />But, hey, thanks for commenting.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-29884498323127708042014-03-28T12:41:04.703-07:002014-03-28T12:41:04.703-07:00So you've sent your CV to Diego?So you've sent your CV to Diego?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-11256236717289672602014-03-28T11:50:48.938-07:002014-03-28T11:50:48.938-07:00Cats don't like Sauvignon Blanc because it sme...Cats don't like Sauvignon Blanc because it smells to them like human pee.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-1111486575451826862014-03-28T09:06:10.234-07:002014-03-28T09:06:10.234-07:00Andy,
And nicely tanned, too.
I'm trying to f...Andy,<br />And nicely tanned, too.<br /><br />I'm trying to figure out which guy I am in the first photo. One of the ones with his pants pulled way up, I hope.<br /><br />Hey, did you publish your thoughts on the Geyserville affair? I haven't seen them if you have. Let me know and I'll put in a link to it, which should get you at least six hits.<br /><br />Vin,<br />I don't have a cat. Though ranking wines on a Pussy Scale has some appeal to me. 89 Twitches and one big Furball might be a nice score.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-37044766484706599112014-03-28T07:53:03.941-07:002014-03-28T07:53:03.941-07:00My cat is a keen judge of wine. I proffer my glass...My cat is a keen judge of wine. I proffer my glass, and the longer her nose twitches before she loses interest, the better the wine. Wish I could read <b>her</b> notes.Vin de Terrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12469348262788254687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-19993480138140885442014-03-27T21:15:58.633-07:002014-03-27T21:15:58.633-07:00Nice photos, Ron. Thanks for making me look skinny...Nice photos, Ron. Thanks for making me look skinny.Andy Perduehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479537349026293591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-37398817322422001012014-03-27T21:04:59.516-07:002014-03-27T21:04:59.516-07:00Puff Daddy,
I suppose the real question is whether...Puff Daddy,<br />I suppose the real question is whether I trust my own first answer, not whether you or anybody else trusts it. And the answer to that question is, not really. Wine is such a moving target. And tasting with you and Stephen certainly taught me to understand that just as wine changes with airing, so do opinions. Doesn't that make sense?<br /><br />And since the evaluation of wine is universally admitted as subjective, isn't favoritism a norm? Even if you don't see the label, Charlie, I've seen you recognize the producer as one you like. And you're not wrong that often about that, I'm sure. So "blind" is, in some sense, a denial of your experience and tasting acumen. If I hear a bunch of singers without knowing who they are, I'm still going to recognize Ella or k.d. or Susie Arioli, and love them accordingly.<br /><br />I mentioned the Corison gaffe only to illustrate fundamental human stupidity--something not given enough weight when we rely on the 100 point charade.<br /><br />When all is said and done, I admire what you do at CGCW. And like the measure of great wines, you have the track record. I'm just a piker.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-51404818547194917072014-03-27T18:53:49.526-07:002014-03-27T18:53:49.526-07:00I see that our buddy, Mr. P, has carried out debat...I see that our buddy, Mr. P, has carried out debate from Mr. Wark's site over here. I'm not biting, Thomas.<br /><br />But as to the UC Davis 20-point system, it may not have been about marketing, but then neither is any other system. It is all about information.<br /><br />And, when done blind, then some of the results that we see in print are just plain non-reproduceable unless one does as Ron just did and filter the information through the knowledge that comes when the wine is revealed.<br /><br />This last move of Ron's, and frankly of most of us who do blind tastings, is both useful and scary. Useful because when a wine like Corison, or Gary Farrell Chardonnay or a Zin blend tasted with varietal Zins are revealed, we learn something more, and that is where intelligent use of background comes in.<br /><br />But scary because if one can change one mind after seeing the wine, then why taste blind. And if blind tasting is better than tasting with labels showing generally, then where does this circle end.<br /><br />My answer is that it ends with the writer of the evaluation. Do we agree or do we find a pattern of favoritism for fancy labels or certain styles?<br /><br />So, Ron, thanks for the comments, but how do we know that you were right or wrong the first time or the second time. We don't. We either trust you or we do not.<br /><br />Before answering, remember that we have tasted together.Charlie Olkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513782687786106137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-38707233446643210852014-03-27T18:23:10.688-07:002014-03-27T18:23:10.688-07:00I like your wife's uvula better.I like your wife's uvula better.wine man boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01416241887895081151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-65589187493458373682014-03-27T17:26:23.517-07:002014-03-27T17:26:23.517-07:00Dean,
Oh, I can do serious, I just can't stand...Dean,<br />Oh, I can do serious, I just can't stand to read it when I'm finished. I sound like the kind of blogger I constantly insult. I should do a parody of myself. Plus I always think that Washam being serious is as pathetic as the "serious" wine writers occasional attempts at comedy. But a piece like this is a nice break for me from the pacing and rhythm of satire, which is far more demanding. The challenge with a piece like this is to make it interesting--a challenge I seem to have lost.<br /><br />One wine expert in any family is plenty. And the talk about most of the wines my wife and I drink lasts about 30 seconds, which seems to be sufficient. <br /><br />Wine judging is great fun, but, alas, also great, as you so eloquently put it, Pfui.<br /><br />Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-2106766944307328462014-03-27T16:57:16.030-07:002014-03-27T16:57:16.030-07:00Holy cow!! A very serious blog entry...congrats on...Holy cow!! A very serious blog entry...congrats on joining the mainstream, Ron...<br /><br />I often taste with my wife, who has no palate memory but does know how to taste, and can give me copious notes "of the moment" before she forgets. Otherwise, she can barely distinguish later between red and white wines...<br /><br />In competitions, I've found that we can all agree on the losers, no problem. Yet, when we must declare a winner, we have to wax on about its strengths, etc. Pfui.Dean Tudorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027150351344396656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-17343662336167744462014-03-27T15:41:41.036-07:002014-03-27T15:41:41.036-07:00Thomas,
Maybe if competitions had you judge desser...Thomas,<br />Maybe if competitions had you judge dessert wines first, rather than after four flights of Petite Sirah or Nebbiolo, they wouldn't be so overmedaled. I don't mind judging them if they come from a place where dessert wines are understood, Sauternes or Niagara or Australia, it's judging the rest of the garbage that nauseates me, I think.<br /><br />I didn't know that about "Only You." As for the Ink Spots, hell, hardly anyone even knows what ink is any more.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-69191635521335247332014-03-27T13:39:14.184-07:002014-03-27T13:39:14.184-07:00Ron:
I didn't mind judging dessert wines, but...Ron:<br /><br />I didn't mind judging dessert wines, but I did take note how so many judges acted as if they had been waiting a lifetime for that category to arrive. I guess, like consumers, wine judges claim to like dry but drink sweet.<br /><br />One type of wine that drove me nuts was sparkling red wine. It's like the kitchen sink thrown into a bottle--tannin, acid, bubbles, some sugar, ML, and on and on.<br /><br />You ought to hear me play "Great Pretender" on the piano--or maybe not.<br /><br />Did you know their first hit, "Only You" was originally written for the Ink Spots? No, I never saw the Ink Spots! Maybe Charlie Olken did.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-85187406447624184732014-03-27T12:41:19.151-07:002014-03-27T12:41:19.151-07:00Drew,
Agreed. But my own tasting note on the Coris...Drew,<br />Agreed. But my own tasting note on the Corison could not be more embarrassing, and that was my point. Bloggers tend to glamorize these sorts of blind tastings, pretend that there is great value in the results, try to gain attention for their breathtaking wine tasting skills, when it's always something of a crap shoot. Those of us who have done this for a living recognize their ploys. It's something of a shame that newcomers to wine don't get to see behind the curtain very often. Thanks for chiming in, Drew.<br /><br />Thomas,<br />I hate judging dessert wines. I have so little use for them, and, as you note, tasting panels tend to overvalue them. <br /><br />Can't say I ever saw The Platters, but it's cool that you did. I still like "Great Pretender" for its fabulously maudlin lyrics and background vocals. Just a classic 50's song, very McCarthy era. Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-62957862004711059342014-03-27T12:35:56.626-07:002014-03-27T12:35:56.626-07:00Ron:
Another phenomenon of wine evaluations is th...Ron:<br /><br />Another phenomenon of wine evaluations is that dessert wines seem often to trump all others.<br /><br />Re, the Platters: by the time they were through, there must have been half a dozen different groups called The Platters. It was a legal mess. I hate to admit that I am old enough to have seen the group perform at Alan Freed's show at the Brooklyn Paramount--barely old enough, of course.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-75622816028524636092014-03-27T12:06:57.507-07:002014-03-27T12:06:57.507-07:00Sounds like a great night. Not surprising that th...Sounds like a great night. Not surprising that the '10 Kronos finished mid-pack here. If I have learned one thing in the years since I first tasted Cathy's wines, it's that there is little more rewarding than letting them sleep for a while.Drew M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04400747926760602666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-82356469295668361442014-03-27T11:48:38.711-07:002014-03-27T11:48:38.711-07:00Thomas,
It was simple luck that Zola Taylor came u...Thomas,<br />It was simple luck that Zola Taylor came up in my Google search. But when I saw it was The Platters, I had to use the photo. Yes, I knew you'd spot them.<br /><br />I'm never going to get involved in a debate at Wark's place. No one ever concedes anything to anyone else over there--it's the old wisdom that when one Poodle starts barking, they all start barking. <br /><br />Amerine's scale was meant to be precise, and to measure the components of wine in order to find ways to improve it, or uncover where the winemaker went wrong. The 100 Point Scale is shorthand for avoiding all that. It does simply stand for an opinion, the opinion, usually, of one person. So it has the same value as a Tweet. Which is to say, very little to no value. Twitter isn't going away either.<br /><br />Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-16142060468040171352014-03-27T11:26:55.724-07:002014-03-27T11:26:55.724-07:00Ron:
You know that I noticed the Platters. Yes, T...Ron:<br /><br />You know that I noticed the Platters. Yes, The Great pretender was among their hits, but how did you manage to find a picture of the group when Zola Taylor was in the lead? She didn't sing lead often, at least not on their early hits. But I digress.<br /><br />When I produced commercial wine, I always brought my latest "discovery" to my wife so that she could taste it and put me back in my place. <br /><br />It's interesting, but after a recent to-do over at Wark's place, I was thinking about how what Maynard Amerine was trying to accomplish with the 20-point evaluation scale is so vastly different from what has become of wine evaluation. His main concern was to identify what constituted quality, not how best to score for marketing.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-6139712061165865392014-03-27T10:57:51.832-07:002014-03-27T10:57:51.832-07:00Mike,
It was your column in the SacBee that remind...Mike,<br />It was your column in the SacBee that reminded me to write this piece. Tasting with three working wine journalists, I decided my best option was to take a completely different angle. Comparative tastings are interesting, and we've all done hundreds of them, but what you take away from the experience isn't really the order of finish, or tasting notes. It's the social aspect of wine, the fun we had doing it, that is the takeaway. I thought at least ten of the Cabernets were pretty damned good. Then it's just about style preference and price. <br /><br />I enjoyed the company. Your wife was there, Mike, and I've judged with her. She's good. Who needs me?<br /><br />David,<br />The before and after pics just made me laugh, they're so stupid. I Googled "Photo of one woman and four men" and those are two that came up. Music lovers may notice the after photo is of The Platters. Appropriate because one of their big hits was "Great Pretender." Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-35480712767410459932014-03-27T10:48:15.689-07:002014-03-27T10:48:15.689-07:00Regarding your pics.. that scandal rag Frank once ...Regarding your pics.. that scandal rag Frank once ran a pic of Jabba the Hut and Princess Leah in that gold bikini with the cutline: Alex Frame president of CBC Radio and some woman from CBC pictured exactly here.. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11992278224164669829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-60416021190092880472014-03-27T10:25:32.839-07:002014-03-27T10:25:32.839-07:00You share your best wines with others? That's ...You share your best wines with others? That's novel. No wonder I don't have any friends.<br /><br />I like your take on the tasting, being candid, putting it in context, and providing the Big Picture while also being personal. And funny: "We'll beat this dead horse until it's Elmer's." Don't be offended; there were other funny lines as well.<br /><br />I tried to be too analytical, getting hung up on tasting notes, always a mistake. If you want to find the column anyway, go to sacbee.com, find the food and wine tab, scroll down the left column of that page, click on more headlines and continue to scroll. It's a lot of work, I know, but Sacramento is such a hot culinary town these days - restaurants closing as well as opening - that the food and wine news gets updated almost hourly, and yesterday's news is, well, yesterday's news.<br /><br />In that column, incidentally, I suggested that the same wines be retasted by the same group in three or four years, but that got edited out. With a little age to the wines - and the judges - I wouldn't be surprised to see the ranking turned upside down. Hope to see you before then.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08284995666531011299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-46439721007062980032014-03-27T10:16:11.918-07:002014-03-27T10:16:11.918-07:00Hey Gabe,
Judging does give you a very different p...Hey Gabe,<br />Judging does give you a very different perspective on the subjectivity of taste, a topic everyone yammers about. But tasting with peers, people you respect, does drive the point home. Shitty wine is shitty wine. Those are easy to dismiss. The rest of the wines are then subject to the individual tastes of the judges, and the circumstances of their position in the flight, and many other relatively minor factors. Not so much guessing as trying to hit a hundred moving targets with four different guns at the same time.<br /><br />But, yeah, the real point was the joy of tasting with very experienced and talented wine folk.<br /><br />Paul!<br />How the hell are you? I miss your blog. You had a blog, right?<br /><br />Professional wine people often bring too much baggage to tasting wines. It's just the way of the world. My wife has tasted a lot of great wines with me, so she knows the difference. Only she doesn't feel any need to be right, or to overanalyze every wine. She just drinks it and usually pins it down with just a few words or two. I have to put it in context, try to figure out how it was made, compare it to previous vintages or comparable producers...all that crap.<br /><br />So, yeah, she's a better judge than I. Except of people. Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-11903809810882129672014-03-27T09:59:59.117-07:002014-03-27T09:59:59.117-07:00Re: the wife palate. Mrs. G is my go-to palate wh...Re: the wife palate. Mrs. G is my go-to palate whenever I am fatigued, bored, uncertain or simply overwhelmed. She tastes wine quite differently than I do, with none of the baggage that weighs down judges and critics. She says she tastes colors (whatever that means). But is she ever good at it! Last night I opened and poured (blind, with no clue at all what I was up to) two wines from my cellar. There was a 2010 'Silex' Vouvray, and a 1995 Fontodi Chianti Classico Riserva. With no hesitation she sipped the first wine, said "France… Chenin Blanc." Bingo. A bit later I served the second wine. She immediately said "Italy… older… 1990s…" Dear God - I wish I was half as good. And so, I would bet, do most of the members of your extinguished panel.PaulGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05409346656762573929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6745003136564123305.post-48615035778561111652014-03-27T09:51:21.925-07:002014-03-27T09:51:21.925-07:00I judged my first wine competition a couple weeks ...I judged my first wine competition a couple weeks ago. I was with two winemakers that I respect tremendously, and one wine writer. We could all agree on which wines were absolutely terrible. After that, it was mostly just a guessing game. <br /><br />I really like your take on the experience, and I agree that it is usually the shallow and showy wines that will show best in that type of tasting. I also agree that the Corison wines are brilliant, subtle, and classy; and I'm not surprised that they didn't show well in a dog & pony show. <br /><br />Regardless, it sounds like you had a good time tasting delicious wine with a good group. Give yourself a gold medal for living well. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13849290999060380035noreply@blogger.com